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	<title>Comments on: 802.3x flow-control</title>
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	<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/</link>
	<description>Helping you become a Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert</description>
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		<title>By: CCIE R/S 4.X Expanded Study Blueprint - CCIE Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-78577</link>
		<dc:creator>CCIE R/S 4.X Expanded Study Blueprint - CCIE Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-78577</guid>
		<description>[...] (c) Flow Control (Blog) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (c) Flow Control (Blog) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sai Lwin Thu</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-73651</link>
		<dc:creator>Sai Lwin Thu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-73651</guid>
		<description>Thanks petr, nice post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks petr, nice post.</p>
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		<title>By: Autonegotiation on Ethernet - it works, it should be mandatory! : My Etherealmind</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4327</link>
		<dc:creator>Autonegotiation on Ethernet - it works, it should be mandatory! : My Etherealmind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-4327</guid>
		<description>[...] of Internetwork Expert posted a good article about why 802.3X pause frame should be disabled here   Filed Under: Blog, DesignTagged: data centre, Design, Ethernet, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Internetwork Expert posted a good article about why 802.3X pause frame should be disabled here   Filed Under: Blog, DesignTagged: data centre, Design, Ethernet, [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: 09 July - CCIE Quickies &#171; CCIE Pursuit Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3983</link>
		<dc:creator>09 July - CCIE Quickies &#171; CCIE Pursuit Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-3983</guid>
		<description>[...] Internetwork Expert Blog - Petr discusses the history of 802.3x flow control. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Internetwork Expert Blog &#8211; Petr discusses the history of 802.3x flow control. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bannister</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3980</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bannister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-3980</guid>
		<description>Hi Petr,

Thanks very much for going to the effort it must have taken to put your answer together.

Your explanation is very easy to understand (and &#039;picture&#039;), I will have a look at the pdf (url) this evening whilst I&#039;m studying.

Many thanks again,

Richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Petr,</p>
<p>Thanks very much for going to the effort it must have taken to put your answer together.</p>
<p>Your explanation is very easy to understand (and &#8216;picture&#8217;), I will have a look at the pdf (url) this evening whilst I&#8217;m studying.</p>
<p>Many thanks again,</p>
<p>Richard</p>
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		<title>By: Petr Lapukhov, CCIE #16379</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3979</link>
		<dc:creator>Petr Lapukhov, CCIE #16379</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-3979</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;To: Richard Bannister &lt;/i&gt;

TCP uses somewhat sophisticated &quot;end-to-end&quot; flow-control model based on sliding-window concept. This model implicitly accounts for the RTT between the endpoints, available end-to-end bandwidth and buffer space utilization at each endpoint. Note that TCP interprets packet loss as a sign of congestion in the transmission path.

802.3x Flow-Control is based on a &quot;hop-by-hop&quot; local concept, e.g. it only takes in account the loading of the link between a stations and a switch. Moreover, it&#039;s up to NIC driver to decide whether to send the PAUSE frame and how long to hold the locally connected sender, and this process probably does not involve consulting with TCP/IP stack.

Therefore, as you can see, 802.3x flow-control may affect TCP performance in the following manner:

1) Changing the effective RTT between the endpoints by introducing artificial delay
2) Causig excessive packet drops and resulting in TCP slowing the sending rate
3) Possibly introducing TCP flows &quot;synchronization&quot; issue due to tail-end dropping behavior

However, while this surely affects TCP end-to-end flow control, it&#039;s not necessarily affecting it in a bad way. On contrary, it may even improve TCP performance - but this should be a subject to a separate study. 

The following IEEE abstract demonstrates that people have been concerned with this interaction and even made some studies already.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/9789/30874/01431675.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>To: Richard Bannister </i></p>
<p>TCP uses somewhat sophisticated &#8220;end-to-end&#8221; flow-control model based on sliding-window concept. This model implicitly accounts for the RTT between the endpoints, available end-to-end bandwidth and buffer space utilization at each endpoint. Note that TCP interprets packet loss as a sign of congestion in the transmission path.</p>
<p>802.3x Flow-Control is based on a &#8220;hop-by-hop&#8221; local concept, e.g. it only takes in account the loading of the link between a stations and a switch. Moreover, it&#8217;s up to NIC driver to decide whether to send the PAUSE frame and how long to hold the locally connected sender, and this process probably does not involve consulting with TCP/IP stack.</p>
<p>Therefore, as you can see, 802.3x flow-control may affect TCP performance in the following manner:</p>
<p>1) Changing the effective RTT between the endpoints by introducing artificial delay<br />
2) Causig excessive packet drops and resulting in TCP slowing the sending rate<br />
3) Possibly introducing TCP flows &#8220;synchronization&#8221; issue due to tail-end dropping behavior</p>
<p>However, while this surely affects TCP end-to-end flow control, it&#8217;s not necessarily affecting it in a bad way. On contrary, it may even improve TCP performance &#8211; but this should be a subject to a separate study. </p>
<p>The following IEEE abstract demonstrates that people have been concerned with this interaction and even made some studies already.</p>
<p><a href="http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/9789/30874/01431675.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/9789/30874/01431675.pdf</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3978</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-3978</guid>
		<description>We ran into an issue with our 6500 (which was configured by default for send flow control to be &quot;desired&quot;).  When interfacing with a Nortel Passport, the link wouldn&#039;t pass traffic.  Once we disabled flow control, things worked fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We ran into an issue with our 6500 (which was configured by default for send flow control to be &#8220;desired&#8221;).  When interfacing with a Nortel Passport, the link wouldn&#8217;t pass traffic.  Once we disabled flow control, things worked fine.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Bannister</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3962</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bannister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-3962</guid>
		<description>Hi Petr,

Thanks for the great post.

I once &#039;broke&#039; a network by including &quot;flowcontrol receive desired&quot; in a macro applied to the configuration of all &#039;uplinks&#039;.

Please can you clarify something for me --&gt; Can ethernet flowcontrol &#039;break&#039; TCP&#039;s mechanisms for flow control in any way?
Somebody once mentioned it to me and it had me thinking...

Richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Petr,</p>
<p>Thanks for the great post.</p>
<p>I once &#8216;broke&#8217; a network by including &#8220;flowcontrol receive desired&#8221; in a macro applied to the configuration of all &#8216;uplinks&#8217;.</p>
<p>Please can you clarify something for me &#8211;&gt; Can ethernet flowcontrol &#8216;break&#8217; TCP&#8217;s mechanisms for flow control in any way?<br />
Somebody once mentioned it to me and it had me thinking&#8230;</p>
<p>Richard</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dirk-Jan van Helmond</title>
		<link>http://blog.ine.com/2008/07/08/8023x-flow-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3959</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk-Jan van Helmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ine.com/?p=175#comment-3959</guid>
		<description>Nice article Petr! Recently with all the FCoE and datacenter ethernet fuzz and the demand for a lossless fabric, PAUSE frames are back. The 802.1Qbb workinggroup is working on a per-priority PAUSE mechanism, overcoming the problems you&#039;ve described.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article Petr! Recently with all the FCoE and datacenter ethernet fuzz and the demand for a lossless fabric, PAUSE frames are back. The 802.1Qbb workinggroup is working on a per-priority PAUSE mechanism, overcoming the problems you&#8217;ve described.</p>
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