Aug
11

Well after today it looks like a few people are confused as to what the Investment Protection Program (IPP) is designed to do.  The IPP is designed to ensure you are covered in the event the product you purchased is ever updated.  This is something I’ve always felt strongly about and is why we were the first to offer a protection program.  For some reason a few people have made the assumption that the IPP covers you for any new products introduced in the same CCIE track your original product is in.  This of course isn’t the case.

Today’s confusion is in regards to the new Audio Bootcamp ($595).  A few previous customers who purchased the Audio Technologies Class ($99) wanted to use the IPP to get the new Audio Bootcamp but these are two entirely different products that target different parts of a candidate’s preparation.  The only similarity is that they are both for the R&S track and both are audio products but the similarities end there.  The old Audio Technologies Class was aligned with the Advanced Technologies Class just like the new Audio Bootcamp is aligned with the 12-Day Bootcamp we offer.  You can’t listen to both of these and say the Audio Bootcamp that Scott Morris has done is just an updated version of the Audio Technologies Class that Brian McGahan did.

A good analogy would be if someone attended the 5 Day Advanced Technologies Class when it was our only class offering, you wouldn’t expect them to get a free seat in our 12 Day Bootcamp when we started teaching it under the Investment Protection Program (IPP) would you?

The IPP does exactly what it says.  You buy a product.  The product is updated.  You get the updated product.  BUT the IPP is not you buy a product.  A new and different product is released.  You get the new and different product. The IPP covers you for your existing products and classes but doesn’t somehow grandfather you into any new products or new classes.

Although the Audio Technologies Class hasn’t been sold by INE for over a year I’ve instructed the sales team to credit anyone who purchased the Audio Technologies Class the full amount they paid for it so they can apply the credit towards the purchase of the new Audio Bootcamp.

Lastly after talking with a few customers by phone and email today I came to the realization that some people want a new type of program.  Look at the current IPP as a “vertical” protection model in that it covers the updates for the life of the product.  What I think some people are wanting is more of a “horizontal” protection model in that they get access to “all” products in a given track but only for a certain timeframe (say 1 or 2 years).  In this new horizontal model you would be grandfathered in for any new products or even classes in a given track.

About Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210:

Brian Dennis has been in the networking industry for more than 22 years, with a focus on Cisco networking for the past 16 years. Brian achieved his first CCIE in Routing & Switching in 1996, and is currently the only ten year CCIE that holds five CCIE certifications. Prior to working with INE, Brian taught and developed CCIE preparation courses for various well known training organizations. Brian not only brings his years of teaching experience to the classroom, but also years of real world enterprise and service provider experience.

Find all posts by Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 | Visit Website


You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

38 Responses to “Investment Protection Program Clarification”

 
  1. Additionally if anyone is still unclear about the IPP feel free to send me an email (bdennis@ine.com) or call me at +1-775-544-1653.

  2. ccieat21 says:

    Thanks for the Clarification.
    Makes Perfect Sense.

  3. Amit Chopra says:

    “horizontal” protection model – look cool , Can we get an option for this?

  4. alan says:

    So in essence, technically, under the IPP I could still receive an updated R&S IEWB_vol1 for years to come, long after I have passed the R&S?

  5. Anna says:

    Hi

    I think there should be an option

    So that Customers can choose horizontal or vertical IPP
    The advantage is that there will be no confusion if the difference is made clear when the customer
    buys the intended product

    And Brian – Nice to see you in Blog

    Bye
    Anna

  6. Andrius Adamavicius says:

    I see CCIE2.0 as a step towards “horizontal” protection model.
    But question is when will it be fully horizontal(TM)?

    Andrius

  7. chandan says:

    I think the old IPPs scheme is much better cause u get updates ffor life and it keeps you in touch with new technology…I think you give botht the option to the buyers

  8. MrPaul says:

    I understand that R&S is the bulk of your business but is there any chance you could post an estimated update schedule for some of your other classes (labs, bootcamps, and/or ATC)?

    I’m talking specifically about the SP material as I also have that from you guys.

    IEWB-SP-VOL2 is dated June 18, 2007
    IEATC-SP Ver 1.1 is dated Sept 9, 2007

    • Hi MrPaul

      We are currently expanding the training team. One of the reasons is to begin to address other tracks that are in need of updates.

      Thanks for your patience and be sure to watch for announcements here on the blog.

      Thanks also for choosing INE!

  9. Brian says:

    I agree that what end to end customers really want is a price they pay to INE and then INE help train them to achieve their CCIE rating – whatever materials or products that requires.

    So I suppose Brian Dennis is right this is a horizontal requirement.

    What I am more concerned about though is the mention of a fixed timeline – its a long journey for some of us, and persuading companies to pay once for something is hard enough, a renewal charge would effectively end many peoples CCIE aspirations when it took over 2 years for them from start to finish.

    Appreciate there are some business model challenges here – but I am very glad I have an existing IPP that isn’t time limited for the products I have, even though total certification training costs are increasing as
    Cisco set new requirements.

    I really think Cisco should be paying US for doing the training, not the other way around !

  10. Jeff Rensink says:

    I posted this elsewhere, but I thought that it was worth posting here.

    In terms of the IPP confusion regarding the CCIE 2.0 program, I think this whole issue comes down to perspective. Do you view the “product” as the CCIE 2.0 program that is an all-inclusive product to train you for the CCIE lab, or as the individual items that came in the bundle when you purchased it.

    INE views the product as the individual components of the bundle. And that is legitimate. If the volume 1 workbook gets updated, all current owners of the volume 1 workbook get the updates. If a brand new product comes out (one that you never purchased separately or as part of a bundle), you don’t get access to it because you never purchased it.

    A lot of us customers view the “product” as the overall CCIE 2.0 bundle, which is more of a program and not really just a bunch of individual products put together. That is a legitimate view as well. Especially because it is advertised as a program and not a discounted training bundle. As a result, any time that the program is upgraded with new versions or new product, we expect to receive access to it because it is an upgrade to the program itself.

    INE, I think you need to make it crystal clear in your advertising exactly how the IPP works in regards to the CCIE 2.0 program. You have examples regarding individual products, but nothing explaining something complex like the CCIE 2.0. Unfortunately the confusion of this has left a sour taste in many mouths.

  11. IPv6Freelt says:

    Would customers of the end to end program not get anything and everything related to R&S? I bought End to End with the assumption that it comes with EVERYTHING, which is why I got it and not individual pieces. Should it not continue to be that way?

    • Hi IPv6FrreIt!

      The E-to-E program is a bundle, and you have IPP for each product in that bundle.

      Thanks – and let me know directly if there is anything you feel you are lacking in your prep for the exam.

  12. Nadeem Rafi says:

    As per program, few purchased 2.0 and things are being added there but still require to purchase new products although these are being published under 2.0 program. what is 2.0 program and its IPP features?

  13. GarrettS says:

    Your IPP is the entire reason that I stick with you guys as training providers, the exams are stressful enough, why worry about whether or not, I’ll need to drop another dime on new training materials if they change?

    • Hi GarrettS!

      You do not have to worry…any products you have purchased are under the IPP. If you purchased the old ATCOD audio, that product was dropped – so there is an exception there I guess. :-(

      I am sure we will discuss an upgrade to that old product, and if we do release it, you would receive it as part of IPP. Even though this would be an exception since we are bringing it back from the dead. :-)

      If you have specific concerns, of course, feel free to contact me directly here.

  14. Shai says:

    ok – some have mentioned this – but i feel i have to offer my opinion of this as well – there is a feeling that some products were “dropped” as to bypass the IPP and thus creating new products could bring more revenue to INE – which is very very annoying to existing customers who await their products to be updated – and not to see “new and improved” products – just to find out they are “new” and therefor not under the IPP.
    i think enough people here mentioned some of these products i am referring to so i do not have to mention them again – but for me it simply looks as if you were trying to increase INE’s revenue – and nothing more ….
    sorry if i offended anybody – simply my “narrow” view of things :-(
    just to clarify – i am a loyal customer since the middle (more or less) of 2007 – i then bought all of the SP track material – and i am sorry to say nothing was updated since on that track …

  15. Shai,

    Politically, that’s not a good idea. :) Now, at least in regards to the previous audio offering versus the Audio Bootcamp v4 we just put up, I can tell you the two had nothing to do with each other!

    The old Audio was an extension of the Advanced Technologies CoD (audio only version), and it was dropped prior to my coming on board here at INE… So there wouldn’t have even been any intent to bypass the IPP option there. (That, and a year + is an awfully long time to wait to bring something out)

    While I’m sorry that it seems that way to some folks, these are not simply “normal development adds/changes” which the IPP was most certainly designed to cover.

    Very much like the automobile manufacturers do not let me simply trade-up my car from year to year, or even within a couple of months (because clearly they wait for me to purchase a car before announcing next year’s model/features!).

    Marketing is designed to increase revenue and keep products being developed (you DO indeed want new and exciting things, correct?) but I can assure you that we do not sit back and skulk around attempting to find ways to extort money from people.

    No offense, but if I’m going to do that, I’ll target people with MUCH deeper pockets. ;) (Gotta have a retirement plan, right?)

    We will take things into advisement and make sure that it is more clearly spelled out exactly what a “bundle” of products entails. But as the contents of the bundle have changed, so has the price even just within the past few months. But my version of buying “a car” may not be the same as yours.

    I hope this helps, and certainly wish we all lived within the world of Utopia where we could indeed simply give everything away!

    Cheers,

    Scott

  16. Amit Chopra says:

    Now come on guys – Every good thing is not free – this is not a charity business. CCIE product need huge amount of time to develop and if IE do not get revenue what they do then you may find less number of passing CCIEs. This CCIE 2.0 is the main confusion which need to fix for ever and I am highly doubt about any thing which start “Life line protection” :)

    Who know what happened after 2012 :) so be chill and study like “devil and monster”

    Scott – “Devil and monster” is my trademark, Please do not take under your signature :)

  17. Amit Chopra says:

    One more things Guys – Do you know any vendor who give 20 to 30% discount on evey weekend??? I do not know any vendor except IE so I am sure you can get this discount advantage towards CCIE audio bootcamp 4.0

    Amit
    Devil and Moster (TM)

  18. Terry Vinson says:

    I have probably been the least satisfied of any customer internetworkexpert has had in a long time. There have been many reason for this, and not all of them have been INE (But you can bet they’ve gotten the blame subconsciously). The IPP is the one thing that I don’t have any beef with at all. They changed to CCIE2.0 and we got the upgrade free. They created the Version 5 volume one labs, we got the upgrade free. They created the Open Lecture series, we got the CoD for free. They created the Written Bootcamp and the Core Knowledge drills, we got it at a SUBSTANTIAL discount if we wanted it. They tossed in the Dynamips workbooks and the old audio classes at no cost.

    Scott Morris put a crap load of time and expertise into the Audio bootcamp. Should it be covered by the IPP. I don’t think so! Look at the old Audio Lectures, they where out of date and very very generic (so much so it was a dead product). There will be no comparison between the two, but INE still is deducting the expense of the original from the new thus protecting that investment. Are the audio bootcamps essential to pass the Lab. No!

    Regarding the Workbook 4 issue. That I think should be covered by the IPP because it is essential to passing the lab and should be part of an “end-to-end” package. But honestly I think the price for existing customers is what $149.00. That’s not going to break the bank.

    Everyone seems to be focusing on what we aren’t getting and not in what we have in hand compared to what we initially bought. If we make that comparison statements like, “being nickeled and dimed to death” (and I have said that at least three times in the last month) just don’t have any validity.

    Terry Vinson

  19. Ferret999 says:

    Guys,

    I seriously think everyone is over reacting here. INE were the first vendor to release investment protection and so I think we should be grateful for this as it forced the other vendors to do the same. If it was not for INE there would have all been cursing our luck as we would be buying completely new products now (new workbook volume 1 new CoD new everything) I for one am extremely grateful as I still have not got my CCIE and I bought my first training products over 2 years ago. Now I have an updated Volume 1 workbook that may only be rivaled by Narbik’s workbook and it has a QoS section that blows everyone out of the water. I have a new updated Advanced Technologies CoD. Maybe there were some people who got confused with the CCIE program but if you looked at it, it clearly detailed it’s individual components. I guess the new program will include the additional components and the price will be adjusted accordingly. Besides the CCIE 2 program with the updated components will still be more than enough material to help you pass the lab. I think that if people want access to all the products then there should be a subscription system, but for those of us who are slow burners due to family commitments and busy jobs please keep the current investment protection. Besides when I eventually get my CCIE I still want to be able to access my products so I can keep up to date. Keep up the great work guys. Now about that Audio bootcamp :-)

  20. Ben Montana says:

    I’m of the opinion we get much more than we pay for with INE.

    But I’m still waiting for “Part 2″ of the Audio ATCOD classes that BMG raves about in all of his part 1 classes ;)

  21. Matt Bowman says:

    First Reply Disappeared so here it is again, and a little longer to boot.

    I see not problem releasing new products as new products, however I do see a problem when not updating older products while using the IPP as a selling point. Using the Audio as an example, The current Audio 3.0 is somewhat out of date and with the new 4.0 track this will really be true. Releasing new products without updating the current customers products makes the IPP worth a lot less IMHO.

    I bought CCIE bundle less than a year before CCIE 2.0 came out. So I understand the frustration. whether the price is a good value or does INE offer discounts are not the question in my mind. The question for me is did I spend my money wisely and am I getting what I felt the IPP was offering. I personally can not afford to spend another large amount on upgrades and new offerings.

    P.S. The study material I do have is nice.

    • Hi Matt!

      Your first post was awaiting moderation.

      I cannot think of too many products that we have ever discontinued. Of course, I am one of the newer instructors. :-)

      Customers have prompted us to discuss a new ATCOD Audio that will serve as an update to the old.

      Thanks so much for the feedback.

  22. Dan M says:

    I just got the updated version of the ATCoD and not only that the 5 day version as a bonus! INE RULES and we definitely get max value for what we pay for here. The IPP is great the way it is. INE has to make money or there won’t even be an IPP to offer and then we are all out of luck. Not to mention it’s not like you have to have the audio class to pass the CCIE.

  23. ccieat21 says:

    Also … CCIE 2.0 Program is one of the best offerings of a Complete CCIE Package. If you compare it with other programs the Number of Products and their quality is far better.
    Simply the combination of Open Lecture Series with the Volume I Workbook is a killer ;) .
    The INE Guys have done a gr8 job and still doing it by adding innovative and fine products and the Audio Bootcamp will be no different.

  24. Faisal says:

    I wish there could be so much discussions in Technical Blog Posts …..

    I think this problem of IPP with respect to CCIE R&S 2.0 is getting digressed. If the End-to-End name is removed from the Product it would avoid all confusion. Most of the people assume that End-to-End means any product that is released for part R&S Track they own it.

    I hope this discussions will not be brought again in future.

  25. Tom says:

    The link: INE’s New CCIE R&S v4.0 Topology is not working, I got the following error:

    Forbidden

    You don’t have permission to access /2009/08/12/ine’s-new-ccie-rs-v4-0-topology/ on this server.

  26. Jeff says:

    I’m with Ben Montana on this one. Still waiting for “Part 2″ of the audio series that BMG references… :)

  27. novicenetadmin says:

    so just to clear up, which specific products is not included in the End-to-End program?

  28. Giorgio P. says:

    INE is great and I have no complaints.
    But it is vital that customers can count on some form of updating when the exam changes.Yes ideally everybody should pass it before that but unfortunately it still does not happen as much as it should.
    Big example troubleshooting it is going to be a big part of the very near new version of the exam. As a CCIE 2.0 customer I got the online version of the workbook as I would expect,maybe few years ago INE would have upgraded the ADV COD including this new part.
    It has been done for many different subjects in the past at no cost,so it has come as a surprise that a completely independent COD will be available
    but at a cost for the CCIE 2.0 customers.
    That is not right in my opinion , while I fully agree that the audio version of the bootcamp is a new product and should be paid for.

 

Leave a Reply

Categories

CCIE Bloggers